I Just Learned How Much Tires Impact Driveability

"Upshift" (Upshift) 04/30/2015 at 19:53 • Filed to: Tires, Mustang, Driveability, Michelin, Pilot, Super, Sport, Ford, Tamed, Difference, Different, Sticky, Pirelli

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I already knew that tires were the most important component in a car. That’s why I made the switch from the factory Pirelli P-Zero Nero all-seasons on the Mustang to Michelin Pilot Super Sports. I did it for the sake of better grip in all aspects of driving. I just wasn’t expecting a difference in how the car feels and drives. Especially not such a MASSIVE difference.

For starters, despite the fact that the new set is wider (245/45 vs 235/50), each tire weighs 5lb LESS than the pirellis. I actually feel that difference through the steering wheel. It feels lighter and more nimble. The tires no longer “fight” the steering from left to right through the uneven surface of the highway and even in the rather extreme spots in Gatineau, the tiller only tugs lightly instead of jarring my hands.

It also seems like what I thought was the result of worn brakes was actually just the shitty, finished tires. I used to get some pretty harsh vibrations and pulsing through the brake pedal and steering wheel whenever I’d hit the anchors. Prompting me to consider inspecting and replacing the brakes. Yeah, now it’s all buttery smooth. Turns out the front brakes are still top notch even after 85,000 km.

Overall. It seems like the wild Mustang has been tamed.

Tohru > Upshift 04/30/2015 at 20:03

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I ran into the same thing with my Bonneville. It had a bad vibration over 55 and I thought I needed tie rod ends.

I put a set of gently used Michelins off a Prius onto it and the ride is buttery smooth.

WhiskeyGolf > Upshift 04/30/2015 at 20:46

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Do you do a lot of highway driving in the Mustang? I also want to make the all-season to summer switch but I do so much highway driving as a percentage that I’m concerned I’ll just be wasting the bulk of my investment.

PG; the scalpel wielder > Upshift 04/30/2015 at 20:59

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Although I do agree with the better tyres thing, I think it depends on what amuses you when driving. I generally just go for the “sporty” but still not super grippy tyres like kumho ku37. I think I just love that little bit of slip within speed limits. Also the reason why I removed my tuned ecu as the power became too linear and took away the magic. If I lived on the nurburgring then sure that may be fun, but slow car fast is not too bad!

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > Upshift 04/30/2015 at 21:05

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Was just trying to decide what summer tires to put on my Genesis, I think I'll take your recommendation.

GTI MkVII > Upshift 04/30/2015 at 21:08

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I made the exact P-Zero Nero to PSS change on my GTI.

Night and day difference. Better ride, better acceleration, drastically improved cornering and quick maneuvers, more agile feeling, better braking, more confidence in the wet and dry, you name it. Best and most effective “mod” I’ve done.

Funktheduck > Upshift 04/30/2015 at 21:13

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I love getting new tires (not the money part) because it’s like getting a new car when the tires are done and getting a new set.

Funktheduck > WhiskeyGolf 04/30/2015 at 21:14

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Get a set of the super mileage saver tires. They suck compared to summers or regular all seasons. But for commuting it won’t matter as much. Then have a separate set on wheels ready to go for weekends.

ItalianTuneUpGuy > Upshift 04/30/2015 at 21:33

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Are you saying you haven’t had to replace the brake pads yet?

WhiskeyGolf > Funktheduck 04/30/2015 at 22:14

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It’s an interesting idea, especially considering I’m doing a couple HPDE events during the year, but I’m pretty sure the hassle of swapping wheels just to go for a drive on the weekend isn’t worth it.

boxrocket > Upshift 04/30/2015 at 22:38

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I'm extremely picky when it comes to tires. Both from driving hundreds of thousands of miles and trying many different brands, and from working as a tire installer and mechanic.

Here's what I've found.

I've not yet encountered a bad Yokohama tire. I've had a set wear out prematurely, but they were sports car tires on a family sedan, so I don't hold it against them. Once the quite-good Cooper CS4s on my Mazda wear out, I'm getting Yokohamas. I've been impressed with every tire of theirs I've driven on including basic passenger series, sportier road series, track-only semi-slicks, truck/SUV Geolandars, and semi tractor tires. Even their low rolling-resistance tires feel better overall than every other ones I've yet encountered.

Bridgestones are magnificent. If I had a truck or SUV it would be hard to choose between Yokohama Geolandars and Bridgestone Duelers, either the Revos or Alenzas, depending how much off-roaring I'd be doing. Potenzas are great, and the all-seasons live up to their name. Blizzaks are excellent winter tires. Turanza Serenity series are sublime.

Nexen, Sumitomo, Kumho, Hankook, Continental, Pirelli, Firestone, Goodyear, General, Capital, Dunlop, Cooper, and a few others make solid overall tires. There are goods and bads within each, just like just about everything else.

I absolutely despise Michelin passenger tires. Their sports and super car tires are great, but I've had far too many negative occurrences with Michelin tires - especially the MXM4 series which come standard on many new cars and are sold as factory replacements- including a few genuine near-death experiences that were almost entirely to blame in the tires, despite being like-new and having plenty of tread.

Tires are made worldwide. Chinese tires aren't necessarily bad, but some are better than others, and some big-name brands have their tires made there and nearby. Similarly, some American-made tires can be junk, and off-brand tires run the gamut.

Before buying, do lots of research and as much test-driving as possible. Tire Rack has a lot of great info, but I've had different findings than them in several comparisons. Don't make a tire purchase an emergency one because of wear or neglect: they need TLC just like any other vehicular system, including frequent inspections, inflation checks, rotations, and alignments. Sure you can drive a tire down to the cords, but FFS DO NOT. Also, don't "stance" the vehicle. Avoid driving off-road-intended tires (large-block knobby ones, like a Firestone Destination M/T for instance) on the road much if you can avoid it: they're less safe, loud, and designed for off-road use, not 80-mph highway runs. Also, don't use track tires on the street. It's illegal and unsafe. Sure you can take that cloverleaf a few mph faster, but it's not what they're designed for. Season-specific tires are great when needed, but don't spend money unnecessarily, but don't put yourself and others in danger by being a tight-ass.

Tires are one place not to skimp on. It's the sole thing that attaches the vehicle to the road, and everything relies on them: stopping, accelerating, turning, mileage, ride comfort, suspension response, etc., etc. Buy the best tires you can afford, or save up for a better set if given the option.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > WhiskeyGolf 04/30/2015 at 23:44

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The super sports will do just fine for highway driving. Driving in a straight line for a long distance at speed is not exactly heavy wear on the tires. I got ~30k over 4 years out of the super sports on my rears, and that was with 20+ days on track mixed in. The front faired much worse, as the outer shoulders got eaten up by the turns, the downside of street camber on the track. I’m hoping dialing in a bit more camber will prevent the shoulders from getting so much wear this year.

wiffleballtony > Upshift 05/01/2015 at 00:04

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I was surprised how crap the Pirellis were on my Mustang until I switched to some decent summer tires.

Upshift > WhiskeyGolf 05/01/2015 at 07:01

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Highway is where I saw the bulk of my driveability difference. However I also track my car with the same tires and do about 50% of my driving in the city. Plus road trips on winding country roads in the summer. It may not be worth it for you.

Upshift > Funktheduck 05/01/2015 at 07:03

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Nvm just saw you weren’t talking to me haha

Upshift > boxrocket 05/01/2015 at 07:22

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agreed with the gist of it all. Tires are the most important component of your vehicle. I gotta agree with Yokohama for passenger tires. Went for the michelin PSS because of the glowing reviews everywhere. My winters of choice are the blizzaks, they’re magical.

Upshift > PG; the scalpel wielder 05/01/2015 at 07:24

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The thing is, the PZNs weren’t just a little slippy. They were completely overwhelmed by the power of the car. At. All. Times. Wet driving was an exercise in frustration and risk management. Plus I track my car. Powersliding because of a 1-2 shift at redline in a straight line is not safe.

Upshift > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 05/01/2015 at 07:26

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Watch the Smoking Tire one takes with Matt Farrah. Everyone with good setups use the pilot super sports and Matt has a huge hardon for them. I now see why he feels that way.

Two Drink Minimum > Upshift 05/01/2015 at 07:28

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I have the same tires on the Abarth and they are the worst. The damn things seek and follow every seam in the road—it’s like riding a motorcycle. And grooved pavement on the highways is a nightmare.

My car drove so much better running on snow tires over the Pirellis, which is just... wrong. I can’t wait for those things to wear out already so I can replace them with something not awful.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > Upshift 05/01/2015 at 10:00

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I know I've heard everyone and their mother talking about the Pilot Sport Cup 2s, so I was unsure about how these would stack up, but they look great

Upshift > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 05/01/2015 at 10:13

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They are sticky enough cold to pick up small rocks and fling em into the wheelwells like machinegun fire. Can’t wait to test them at the track.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Upshift 05/02/2015 at 10:08

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I went from Bridgestone RFTs to PSSs on my Z4. Not only did it help in the handling department, it also helped in the ride department, because no more incompressible sidewalls.

Since I have a flat on the Mini, I’m considering going from the Conti RFTs to either Conti summers ($400 a set), or PSS. Leaning towards the Contis since it’s a commute car, and I don’t track it.

Upshift > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 05/02/2015 at 10:15

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If you don’t track the car, no point in getting something as aggressive as the PSS honestly.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Upshift 05/02/2015 at 10:18

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More correctly, I don’t track it *yet*.

Textured Soy Protein > boxrocket 05/02/2015 at 10:19

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Gonna have to pretty strongly disagree with the first part of what you said.

There’s way too much variability in tires to try and generalize about any brand based on experience with one (or a few) of the tires they’ve made.

Every tire company makes some good tires, every tire company makes some shitty tires.

For example, you say “Potenzas are great, and the all-seasons live up to their name.”

1. Take a look at the Tire Rack reviews on the Potenza RE92 supposedly-all-season tires.

2. The Potenza RE050A RFT run-flats that came OEM on my 135is are garbage. They have halfway decent if unimpressive grip, way too much impact harshness from the stiff run-flat sidewalls, I’ll be lucky to even get 15k miles out of them, and they’re ridiculously expensive to replace.

As for SUVs and trucks there are so many better options than what Yokohama and Bridgestone are putting out right now.

When it comes to buying tires, look at what’s available in your vehicle’s size, do some research on test results, surveys and reviews, and pick what looks like will be the best option that meets your needs.

Don’t worry about brands.

boxrocket > Textured Soy Protein 05/02/2015 at 13:49

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I actually had more model numbers on the Potenzas but didn't want to get too specific. RE92s are an old design and not great. I've never encountered a run-flat tire that didn't mostly suck. RE050 Pole Position and 070 (again, not RFT) series were mostly to what I was referring to.

With the exception of true heavy-duty and off-road products, and including OTR tractors, I believe I've driven on every automotive tire line Yokohama has sold in the U.S. over the last 20 years, and for a combined total well over 300k. The only ones I wasn't largely impressed with - mostly because they're designed as OEM tires for minivans - are the S33B series. Are Yokohamas always the best choice? Of course not, but I've not yet had a negative experience with a Yokohama, so I cannot recommend against them. I've also not yet had a negative experience with a Dunlop and a BF Goodrich, but I have maybe a couple hundred miles of experience for each brand and across only a few tire lines, so it isn't as comprehensive experience.

As we all know, "Your mileage may vary".

Textured Soy Protein > boxrocket 05/02/2015 at 14:28

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We’re mostly on the same page with the second part about doing research and picking the right tires for the situation.

I just don’t pay any attention to brands. It may well be true that Yokohama makes consistently decent tires with very few duds in the lineup. But for me, whoever makes the tire with the best balance of performance and price for what I need, that’s what I’m buying.

As for Dunlop, I can give some negative experience: the Grandtrek AT20 is pathetically bad. They’re OEM on the Toyota 4Runner, among others. I had one as a loaner for a couple days. It snowed maybe an inch and the tires were spinning like crazy. You have to wonder why Toyota would spec an OEM tire that’s so bad in the snow on a vehicle people are buying because it’s supposed to be good in winter.